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Ian Marshall
Sheet Hand
Australia
24 Posts |
 Posted - 28 September 2005 : 10:02:17 PM
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Kevin and everyone else, was going to talk to you about coming down for a weekend.Have a few weekend races after christmas,Crown Series would be good ,also Cygnet Regatta is good.Leigh may even come out of cruise mode with Caroline.
Ian ZERO BALANCE |
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Chris Cope
Skipper
Australia
2350 Posts |
Posted - 03 October 2005 : 2:52:37 PM
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A big thanks to Colin Cole & his people for a great weekend of sailing & fun at the 40th Endeavour regatta. It was good for the Hagar IV boys to test our new E30 against some other 30s' as well as the E27 & E28s'. We were more than pleased with our performance and give notice that we have only just begun to sail and race her. Really enjoyed matching it with the E27s' of Andos' & Rhumline. With a few failures fixed as well as some new sails in the future we think the Hagar has an extra five to ten minutes up her sleeves.
Next time we would like to start with the E26s' as it is a bit annoying having to sail through their fleet.
Most amazing was the fact that we sailed down to BB as well as going back to Sydney in better breezes than those encountered during the regatta. Another bit a trivia was the fact that we achieved better results with the extra man, Sasha, on board on the Saturday than without him on the Sunday. more to come.
Chris. |
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Splinter
Helmsman
Australia
500 Posts |
Posted - 03 October 2005 : 7:56:56 PM
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Hi, Guys just returned home from BB, gee what a great weekend.
To Col Cole and all his helpers and Committe. A BIG thank you, "wonderfull" regatta. *(Sack the Starter !!!) but had a great time. Cruised back this afternoon with a guy who totally alter the tune of Splinter. Learnt a lot. Copie watch out next time, piss the starter off and let have fun.
I want to get a trophy for the starter. will discuss it with you later, a new clock would suggest the one in the Welcome bag plated and framed. Just up him.
Got to go the Shortie's tomorrow to fix all the holes in the light spinnaker.
Gee so many new friends.
cheers, |
"Splinter" |
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Chris Cope
Skipper
Australia
2350 Posts |
Posted - 05 October 2005 : 12:04:51 PM
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Following the weekends racing we have been reviewing our performances as well as the failures which contributed to these.
I have identified five main failures which contributed to us loosing positions and pace during the four races which we competed in.
FAILURES:
1. Did not pay enough attention to the flags & know what was going on. It is easy to blame the Starter, but ultimately we did not take note of the flags which he hoisted & along with most of the others we started too early in at least one race.
2. The Clutches for our main & jib slipped at least once each in the first two races which cost us a probable win in heat 1 & a 2nd in another heat.
3. The jib sheet jammed in the blocks on more than one occasion.
4. The jib became entangled in the kicker during a jibe.
We will be looking at remedying these problems for next weekends race at North Harbour.
And, Sasha, as you were on the boat on Saturday, if you have any input either positive or negative it will be appreciated.
Chris. |
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Sasha
Helmsman
838 Posts |
Posted - 05 October 2005 : 1:49:51 PM
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The jib sheets jammed for every boat I was on, on at least 50% of all tacks (to a lesser or greater degree, sometimes I just grabbed the sheet from my position at the mast and hauled it across despite it trying to bind). I have some ideas going about possible solutions for this...let me juggle them around in my head for a bit longer.
On our boat we used static rock climber's rope for the jib sheets, and for some reason it seems to get fouled far less, this may be because we did not have the pressure of racing, or fewer people in the cockpit to stand on them...but it just might be because they have a slightly different weave that is designed to prevent kinking and binding.
On all three boats during the weekend, I got the feeling that better "housekeeping" with the ropes was needed, but no one had time or had been issued the reponsibility for it (or maybe it could just be put as a priority to the whole crew, when things are moving along and you are not fully occupied, tidy and flake ropes)
Those are most of my thoughts, other then the notion that having a dedicated crewman at the mast that augments both the "office" and the foredecky makes for tighter, faster and cleaner tacks, gybes and sail changes.
Ohg, one other thought on the PVC pipe baby forestay cover on hagar. Since the bottom part of it cannot pivot anyway (it is keyed into the deck ridge), cut a window in the pipe facing towards the mast. This lets you adjust the babystay without having to move and slide all that PVC around while still offering a sliding surface on the forwards edge for the saile and sheets. You could even lead the tail of the rope for the block and tackle of the stay back to the cockpit so that both backstay and babystay can be tuned at the same time from the cockpit.
Then you could glue the "lid" between the big tube and the smaller tube to the inside of the big lower tube. This will stop it coming up and snagging the jib sheet, as it did on a couple of occassions on Saturday.
Finally, since you will have lots of spare cam-cleats and things "spare" soon as you rip out and replace clutches and such, consider taking the tail for the cunningham back to the cockpit as well, the existing little dinky (or actually dinghy, by the looks of it) block and cleat you have on there is not really usefull, and I notice you guys do like using the cunningham to shape the sail a fair bit.....Might as well have it work better.
Did you try tightening up the mainsail leach rope on the way home? Did it take a little of the flap out of it?
Cheers.
Sasha
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The more I know about horses, the more I love sailboats.
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Chris Cope
Skipper
Australia
2350 Posts |
Posted - 05 October 2005 : 6:50:49 PM
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Thanks for that Sasha, have been discussing some of the problems with Rod this afternoon. We will look at the baby stay and I agree with you about it rising up etc. Had not thought about the tensioner rope going back to the cockpit though, we will look at that one. The main cunningham is one which we should have already changed having discussed & agreed to do it. We may not use the extra block at the back of the boat for the jib sheeting while racing, it would mean one less corner & less rope. Will look at it this weekend.
Thanks for your input,
Chris. |
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Sasha
Helmsman
838 Posts |
Posted - 05 October 2005 : 7:07:17 PM
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To be honest, I am not sure why Hagar and a couple of other boats were rigged that way. We went straight from the sheet block on the deck up to the winch. I noticed that Scallywag did the same. It seems to me that the sail shape is determined by the first block and the point of pull is always going to be the winch. Still both Hagar and Rhumbline and a few other of the gun boats all had the sheets running back to what I had always thought of as the spinnaker blocks and then back forwards.
I have to admit I just assumed there was a "good reason" for it and was too busy processing ten million other bits of information to actually ask anyone a question about it.
One of the other nifty things that went on was that the foredeck/spinnaker guy on board Bon Doobie had this sytem where on a tack he would not just skirt the sail the way that we did on Hagar, he would actually run with the clew along the deck as the sail flipped around and try to tension it somewhat on brute strength, this left the sheet much easier to haul in by the crewmember on winch and meant that the sail assumed its correct shape much faster and only needed a couple of turns of the winch handle. He of course skirted it as he hauled. It really did make a difference, only about 5 or 6 seconds on every tack in terms of having a fully set up and drawing headsail...but there were a lot of tacks and we got to look back at boats dropping away behind us taking 10-15 seconds to get the same basic sail into play.
Just a thought to mull over.
Sasha
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The more I know about horses, the more I love sailboats.
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Edited by - Sasha on 05 October 2005 7:08:39 PM |
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David
Helmsman
Australia
232 Posts |
Posted - 05 October 2005 : 8:28:22 PM
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Dave who was our foredeck for the weekend did have some nifty tricks as you put it Sasha.
And to be honest i would not have gone half as good if it wasn't for Dave, and also the advice from Sasha on the Sunday.
I picked up a lot by having you two on board, now if i can retain about 10% of what i picked up, i will be happy.
Hope you enjoyed Bon Doobie sasha, it was a pleasure to meet you and thanks for filling in for me at the presentation.
I hear your in the skippers group photo, well your dedication to Endeavours i think you deserve it,thanks again.
David. |
If vegeterians love animals, why do they eat their food? |
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Chris Cope
Skipper
Australia
2350 Posts |
Posted - 05 October 2005 : 8:28:36 PM
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I was told the reason for the jib sheet going back and around a turning block then to the winch is to reduce upward pressure on the first deck block. Does that make any sense? I thought like you that the sheet should go from block to the winch & then cleat was the most efficient, especially in light winds.
Chris. |
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Sasha
Helmsman
838 Posts |
Posted - 05 October 2005 : 8:39:56 PM
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OK. I can sort of see that, but the track has about 20 through bolts going through 15mm+ of solid fibreglass deck (possibly with a backing plate on the other side too), so I do not think it is going to go anywhere. And the actual car that run along the track is the exact same one used by some yachts for the spinnaker pole track....which put amazing side loads and pull loads on a single point, and it seems to do fine.
So I can understand the concern, but I think that a good track and car will cope with far more then what it will take to shred the actuall head sail.
Thanks for the explanation. I will do some more research based on it.
Sasha
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The more I know about horses, the more I love sailboats.
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david_eastwood
Main Sheet Hand
124 Posts |
Posted - 06 October 2005 : 12:09:18 AM
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Chris, Sasha, some thoughts on jib sheets and kinks.
1) Reducing upward tension on the block is right, it's a Vector thing. But, as Sasha says , there is normally no shortage of fastenings so it's not really a structural issue. Where it does make a difference is where you have a block & tackle arrangement to move the jib car back and forward, reducing up-load reduces friction by a lot. If you are just using spring pins, then you can only move the jib car when it's unloaded anyway, so having less upward load on the jib car makes no difference at all.
2) On my 26 you the jib sheet saws a slot in the edge of the cockpit coaming if it is led straight up from the winch - it's heavily loaded and rough so it carves through old gelcoat like butter. Need to check that on a boat by boat basis. I have some cool stick-on mylar film I got from a mate at Qantas that prevents the ropes cutting thorugh. It's used in planes for something similar he tells me.
3) The winches on a 26 (dunno about 30) are relatively highly placed on the coaming, and many winches are pernickety about what angle heavily loaded ropes lead in at. Big loads at the wrong angles can bugger the bearings quickly. On my 26 the sheet leads straight on to the winch parallel to the base from my aft turning block.
4) Sometimes having the sheet coming straight up from the jib car to the winch can create an obstacle to the crew moving around or tangle up in other ropes etc etc. Obviously not such an issue on cruise missiles, but annoying for racers.
5) My jib sheets kink up too, I use low tech polyester braid because it's soft and flexible, and not too stretchy. Previously we had some cored spectra which was far less prone to kinking, but stiffer and harder to handle. A stiffer rope will kink less so spectra or vectran might be a good option.
5) I'm planning to replace the aft jib sheet turning blocks, which sit under my bum when steering, with Lewmar footblocks with built in cam cleats. This way I can unload the winch without letting the sheet off - good for those frantic mark rounding moments in a 26 where you can never fit enough bodies in the cockpit to do all that's necessary!
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Shed boy #1, the one holding the stick thingy. |
Edited by - david_eastwood on 06 October 2005 12:13:06 AM |
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Chris Cope
Skipper
Australia
2350 Posts |
Posted - 06 October 2005 : 09:43:53 AM
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Yes David, all of what you have suggested about the abrasion on the bodywork applies to our E30 with jibsheet & other rope rubs. Rod has already strategically located stainless plates to minimise the damage which the jib sheets will do. Like you we have thought about changing the after turning blocks. Before we do this we will have to lift the stainless channel plating on both the port & starbord gunnels. They are currently sitting on the alloy gunnel tubing and have not been sealed with the yellow cocky-cack & there is a lot of corrosion.
Just another job to be done.
Chris. |
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Barubi
Main Sheet Hand
92 Posts |
Posted - 06 October 2005 : 1:27:45 PM
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I’d always assumed that the aft turning block made for a constant fleet angle to the winch - no matter where the car is, the sheet always comes to the winch at the right angle.
The Lewmar footblocks could be a neat solution to the problem of not having separate spinnaker winches. Where would you mount them so they were handy to reach and still act as effective turning blocks?
We have handed winches, so that the port winch goes clockwise and the starboard winch is anti-clockwise and therefore the sheets always lead from outboard and don’t rub on the coaming. Unfortunately the winches are wearing out and I don’t have the skill to fix them, so I’m thinking about replacing them. What’s the ideal genoa winch for an E26? What brand, size and is self-tailing worthwhile?
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Sasha
Helmsman
838 Posts |
Posted - 06 October 2005 : 1:57:39 PM
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I love the old Barlow winches, sadly they have not been produced for a long time now. Lewmar is prbably the best value for money for a really high quality product. Harken is nearly twice the price for not real advantages.
Amel are about the cheapest...not sure about them. The only ones I have used were so clapped out they were literally disintegrating during a light-air race.
Ronstan keep promising to release its own set of affordable ST winches....always next year.
I love self tailing winches but most people I have crewed with think they are too slow to use for racing. Brilliant for cruising though. I think needing to find someone in the cockpit with a spare hand to tail the winch for you is slow too.
There are a bunch of US companies that do not have a big presence in Australia that produce decent winches. I think there might be a lot to be said for going on-line to search out a bargain.
For what it is worth, rebuilding winches is not too difficult at all, takes a bit of patience, but you need to strip them down exactly as much in order to remove them and replace them. reconditioning kits with ratchet tabs and springs can still be bought and installing them once the drum is off is easier then glassing up the old holes and drilling new ones for a set of new winches.
Two speed winches are definately the go, though.
Check out http://www.arco-winches.com/ as a good place to start
Sasha
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The more I know about horses, the more I love sailboats.
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Edited by - Sasha on 06 October 2005 1:59:43 PM |
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david_eastwood
Main Sheet Hand
124 Posts |
Posted - 06 October 2005 : 4:16:40 PM
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In terms of the Lewmar footblocks I plan to bolt them to the outside of the cockpit coaming under my helming position, basically in line where the exitsing turning blocks are. The existing blocks float on spectra strops tied through the toe-rail. I haven't fully checked the leads out yet, but I think they'll work. I think Guy Irwin has his turning blocks mounted there. I have clam cleats mounted in the same area for blocking off the kite sheets too.
On winches I did a bit of research a year or so back, and I'm likely to move to Lewmar 12 CT 2 speeders. They are very light with the composite drums. The drums will wear out faster than metal of course, but they're easy to replace. On the 26 I find the old single speed Barlow 20s I have get in the way of the crew trimming the jib as much as they should as the sheet loads on the #1 are pretty high. I'm 6 foot tall, 90kg and fit and I find grinding the last couple of inches in pretty hard with the single speed winch.
Alternative is a small self tailer - I'm still thinking through whether those would be better, Lewmar don't make a suitable winch, their smallest 2 speed self-tailer is twice the weight of the 12CT. I think Harken may have had a suitable model, B16.2STA but I just checked their web site & found a photo of it but no product details - maybe discontinued?
When I was researching a year or so back I managed to negotiate a wholesale price with the Lewmar distributor, though I didn't buy anything at the time. I'll give it another shot this time around. |
Shed boy #1, the one holding the stick thingy. |
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Sasha
Helmsman
838 Posts |
Posted - 06 October 2005 : 5:36:52 PM
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Just as a correction, the French winches are Antel, not Amel (amel is the name of a boat builder).
Sasha
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The more I know about horses, the more I love sailboats.
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david_eastwood
Main Sheet Hand
124 Posts |
Posted - 06 October 2005 : 10:50:07 PM
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On self-tailing - I'm a big fan of ST Winches, and use them all the time racing on bigger boats.
Once you have the technique down pat they are pretty easy to unload quickly, but you need to be standing above the winch and have enough space to spin the sheet off quickly, that's hard in a squeezy E26 cockpit! |
Shed boy #1, the one holding the stick thingy. |
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Chris Cope
Skipper
Australia
2350 Posts |
Posted - 07 October 2005 : 5:04:58 PM
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This weekend I plan to take off the stainless channel plates which we have found to be corroding the underlying alloy gunnel tubing. They have stainless plates welded & onto them with the turning blocks for the jib & kite are shackelled.
Has anyone attempted to do this job & are there any unforeseen hazards or surprizes?
Chris. |
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Chris Cope
Skipper
Australia
2350 Posts |
Posted - 07 October 2005 : 5:12:09 PM
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Did anyone have their boat scrubbed before the 40th Regatta? Just asking. I know that most of us had our boats anti-"fowled" before the long weekend.
A friend of mine said that we should have had it done as it would have given us an extra half to one knot boat speed.
Chris. |
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Sasha
Helmsman
838 Posts |
Posted - 07 October 2005 : 5:45:12 PM
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Just one bit of advice re the stainless plates. DO NOT USE A WIRE BRUSH to clean up the corroded bits. You will just be intorducing yet another metal to corrode. Use 3M type scotch scrub bits. The industrial versions are available from engineering supply shops like Blackwoods if Bunnings does not stock them. Finish with some fine wet-n-dry sand paper in the 320grit range (or finer if you are a masochist)
Wipe down with a clean cotton rag with acetone on it and leave to evaporate for a few minutes.
Then re-apply the stainless plates with the proper seperator medium (commonly called "cocky cack"). Whitworths sells the stuff, but I cannot currently remember the name, just tell them the stuff to put between aluminium and stainless fittings. The tube costs less then $20 and lasts forever.
One word of warning. DO NOT get any of the crap on your clothes or skin, it is viscous.
Oh yeah, there is a very good chance that the former owner bonded the plate to the aluminium in some way other then through bolts...Bring along some thin scrap timber to pry against so you do not mar the deck paint. Cheap steel rulers are also a nifty tool for lifting old hardware off boat decks.
On your last post, there was a diver in attendence on the Friday afternoon, he took a list of boats to clean and puttered off in a dinghy to give them a scrub. He was charging the princly sum of $1 per foot of boat. He did at least five or six, maybe more.
Sasha
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The more I know about horses, the more I love sailboats.
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A New E30
