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Chris Cope
Skipper
Australia
2350 Posts |
 Posted - 30 January 2006 : 8:12:14 PM
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The ongoing upgrading & work on the Hagar IV is continuing, as it does. Last weekend saw the long awaited new Clutches for the Mainsail & Jib Halliards installed, and, they no longer slip!!!
The next job to be attacked is the leaking stern gland. Now when we first procured the boat & slipped her we did not know about the fact that the stern gland was supposed to have a greasey rope in the gland which swelled up providing lubrication and minimised leakage. We discovered the grease nipple and have been filling it after running the motor & this works. However if not filled the stern gland leaks badly. So in the next week our resident engineer, Dave the Diver has volunteered to insert the greasy rope while tied up to the marina. A job which we were hesitant in doing afloat.
The next must do is the electronics and that will require a visit from the Navman pro. While a visit from the sparky to fix our non-performing automatic bilgepump is also on the list.
After that there will be a long list of jobs re-the installation of Stainless Fittings as provided by Sasha.
At some time in the next few months she will go up onto the slips for antifouling as well as new rudder skirts & perhaps a new stern glad assembly which will make her leak proof, we hope!
Cleaning & re-painting of the sides is also on the agenda. Lots to do and so little time...and money.
Finally next year will see some new sails, we hope.
Chris. |
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Splinter
Helmsman
Australia
500 Posts |
Posted - 01 February 2006 : 9:22:27 PM
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Hi guys, just go back from our Twilights and after finishing the race (5th) there was "Bojangles" on the end of the Marina. This is the boat that is the twin to "Murphie Law". They were built together (I think by some guy who was a pilot or something) side by side. They are miror reverse interior, anyway the three guys who bought it paid 45 k and spent some.
They are joining our Club and will race when they are free. Thay are Ambos so on shift work and will make it when they can.
So another '30 even though a Mark 2 but she look good, no "Great"
will catch up on the Farum shortly.
enjoy. |
"Splinter" |
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Colin Cole
Helmsman
Australia
676 Posts |
Posted - 01 February 2006 : 9:50:31 PM
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| you've not missed much Kev - only Chris throwing his gross tonage around :) now that he is out of 26s he does so delight in baiting us!!!! |
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Splinter
Helmsman
Australia
500 Posts |
Posted - 01 February 2006 : 10:14:40 PM
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Well Col, I've been throwing a lot of baits around and catching heaps, the only problem is that we have been eating them. "He who bites we catch"
Did all enjoy the Nationals ? and did everybody meet everybody ?
Did you meet Leigh and his wife ? guestions that I still would like to know. And was the National a success ?.
Had an email from Chris re next Nationals and would be interesting so long as it has support from everybody. "All Endeaqvourers'"
The so called Nationals have been run and SO few have organaised them. SO IF THEY ARE TO CONTINUE, EVERYBODY MUST GIVE A HAND. DO NOT BLUDGE AND JUST ARRIVE !!
cheers, |
"Splinter" |
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Chris Cope
Skipper
Australia
2350 Posts |
Posted - 02 February 2006 : 05:04:52 AM
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The ongoing internal beautification of the Hagar IV has until now has taken little of our attention as we strive to make her more functional as well as complying to the Catagory levels to race. And so over the past few weeks, as time permitted I've been making a few bits for the Hagar. This subject in question has been the floor boards, as the original set of three were water stained & soaked as well as having have carpet stuck to them. This we have not liked because it collects dust and absorbs & retains moisture. So with a sheet of exterior grade plywood I have cut out to fit a new set of floor boards. They are also of better design so as to spread the weight on the provided supports more evenly which should minimise the vibration and noise generated by the engine.
Chris.
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Chris Cope
Skipper
Australia
2350 Posts |
Posted - 03 February 2006 : 1:43:34 PM
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The last posting which I made to this subject was supposed to have six or seven photos of my new floor boards, but alas they did not come up.
Anyway this is about Boat Speed, or:
THE NEED FOR SPEED
Just how fast can we get the Hagar to go? & more specifically how fast on the wind? The boat speed downwind will vary due to wind speed, size of the kite and the length & size of the waves. As well as how stupid you are feeling.
During the nationals we got her humming at 5.6 to 5.8 knots in either the No1 or No2 header. We never got to use the No3 although at times should have used it. We would get to 5.8 and if the breeze got any fresher we would stall & slow down. Old Pete says that if we finish off the improvements as well as getting some new sails she should do well into the 6 knot range.
The jobs to do include:
1. Rudder skirts installed.
2. Checking the feathering prop is in the right spot when we are sailing.
3. Have the rigger sheck that the is level & shrouds are in correct tension.
4. Block & tackle adjustable sliding jib sheet cars.
5. Procure a new set of sails of the composite type.
6. And whatever else I've forgotten.
The water line length also has a major influence on the boats ability to go any faster. The water line length of the E30 is about 26.5 foot while the length of the E26 is around 18.5 foot. So it stands to reason that the E30 should go quicker, in theory. Practice is another matter and does not take into account weight, sails, crew etc.
The need for speed is going to become an all consuming passion and hunger.
Might even have to go back to the R&D foil sites!
Chris. |
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Chris Cope
Skipper
Australia
2350 Posts |
Posted - 06 February 2006 : 3:48:09 PM
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Late yesterday afternoon Rod, Old Pete & myself bought the Hagar into the Marina Work Berth at North Harbour. Rod got to work with Pete and rationalised the jib, kite sheet & brace sheets which have been too long, getting entangled and winding up into knots. They also checked out the No1 jib which we cannot get enough luff tension into and suspect that the knot in the halliard is too long.
I was downstairs trimming the and fitting the new set of floor boards. These new boards will not reduce weight but will minimise the noise with less vibration and rattle. The old boards had apparently at some time been altered to allow for a new smaller engine which we now have. And while the motor is OK and light it is under-powered and if we ever have to replace it I would upgrade to at least a 20 HP from the current 10 HP. The original boards were not supported properly and now that has been solved. We now only have to finish sanding and varnishing and then install. The bad job was cleaning up all the shavings and sawdust downstairs. I was mighty hot and stickey work. We also put some water back into the rear tanks which were empty.
We still have a list of jobs to complete and we are thinking about the next slipping when there will be a lot of work to complete.
Then it was back onto the mooring and the Club.
Chris. |
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Chris Cope
Skipper
Australia
2350 Posts |
Posted - 07 February 2006 : 8:57:38 PM
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Further to my posting of the 3rd of February entitled the Need For Speed, Rod has corrected me on the waterline lengths.
He tells me the E26 waterline length is 18.0 feet with a maximum waterline hull boat speed of 5.5 knots, while the E30 has a waterline length of 26 feet and with a maximum waterline hull boat speed of 6.0 knots.
Old Pete said after we came home from the Nationals that if we finished all of the scheduled upgrades and restoration to the Hagar IV as well getting some new working sails that we could do well into the 6.0 plus knot range. Now this is not impossible as we a can get her going close to 6.0 knots now under the right conditions while usinf our old blown out sails.
In one of Kevins old posting which I was reviewing the other day he mentioned doing 6.0 to 7.0 knots on the wind with his blade & reefed mainsail in 35 knots of wind strength in the Splinter in 2003.
Old Pete also said there was no reason why we could not do the whole fleet for speed when all the jobs are done.
We are working towards this objective.
Chris. |
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Go Flow
Helmsman
Australia
751 Posts |
Posted - 07 February 2006 : 10:15:15 PM
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Hi All,
When the Endeavours heel the waterline length increases. The theoretical speed increases as well. The waterline length of an E26 increases more relatively than an E30. Any objectors.
Adrian |
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Chris Cope
Skipper
Australia
2350 Posts |
Posted - 08 February 2006 : 04:40:00 AM
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Adrian,
How did you come to the conclusion that the waterline length of the E26 is longer relatively to the E30 when on the heel? I would suspect it would be the opposite as the E30 is a fat lady & an IOR design. Our Hagar does accelerate when she goes over on the heel in gusts and this is confirmed via the log which shows an increase in boat speed.
Chris. |
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david_eastwood
Main Sheet Hand
124 Posts |
Posted - 08 February 2006 : 08:19:03 AM
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Th eE30 has pointy ends - an unfortunate IOR legacy. They don't pick up much length when heeled. The 26 has much fatter sections fore & aft which push the bow and stern waves outwards when the boat heels and increase effective length. I can get 5.8 - 5.9 out of my E26 upwind on that basis. I reckon the E30 ought to get up around 6.6 or 6.7, maybe more in really heavy air with good sails as Splinter has noticed.
The rule of thumb formula for max hull speed is 1.35 x SQRT(Waterline length in feet). So for a 25 foot waterline that's 1.35 x 5 = 6.75 knots. Note that this is a rule of thumb and does depend on the "effective" waterline length and the hull sections. Downwind with the boat upright an E26 waterline is probably around 22 feet. |
Shed boy #1, the one holding the stick thingy. |
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Go Flow
Helmsman
Australia
751 Posts |
Posted - 08 February 2006 : 08:36:17 AM
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Thanks David for your back up. Interestingly Imperium can match speed with all the older half tonners on the lake. Just look at the results of our interclub events in light to moderate conditions. When the wind gets up thats another story.
Adrian |
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Chris Cope
Skipper
Australia
2350 Posts |
Posted - 08 February 2006 : 2:42:52 PM
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Well Adrian we dont' sail on your pond but are much looking forward to having a matchup with you up there in the not too distant future so that we can defuse your unbelief in 30 footers boat speed. You will find that we are not not like fresh water sailers encountered in inland waterways.
With regards to the water line lengths, and please correct me if I am in error, but according to the Blue book, page 64 in the section entitled Construction & Marketing of Endeavour Yachts there is a list of the LOA, LWL & Beams of all the Endeavour yachts.
The E30 is listed as having a :
LOA of 9.3M = 29.76 feet.
LWL of 7.3M = 23.36 feet &
Beam of 3.1M = 9.92 feet.
The E26 in comparison has the following:
LOA of 7.9M = 25.28 feet,
LWL of 6.5M = 20.8 feet &
Beam of 2.6M = 8.32 feet.
Now Rod does not agree with the E26 LWL measurement of 20.8 feet and says that Reg told him it was 18.2 feet?
From what I have been led to believe the IOR rule gave rise to a design which allowed for the boat to have more beam which effectively increased the waterline length of the craft when at the optimum angle of heel. That is why I say that our boat speed picks up when the gunnel is nearly in the water, but not under because there is a point where the boat stalls & slows down, as we found in Heat 4 of the Nationals when we were overpowered late in the race in our number one header.
With reguards to Davids comments, I do not understand what he is saying about the straight sections of the E26s' as well as the "pointy ends" of the E30s'.
However I'm open to your interpretation and clarification, David and I will try and measure the Hagars heeled waterline length this weekend when we plan to have her in at the work berth for modifications to the stern gland & electrics.
But I'm glad you agree the 30s' are theoretically quicker than 26s' and we are working towards proving your deduction, with Adrians co-operation on the pond in the not too distant future.
Chris. |
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Splinter
Helmsman
Australia
500 Posts |
Posted - 08 February 2006 : 9:44:52 PM
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Gee I've got to think about this. You guys are getting technical with your measurement. But all, yes we have seen good speeds on the log and GPS.
All I know is we are going out again this weekend and enjoying ourselves.
We will be doing the Capt Cook Mark, return to start bouy then to Boat Harbour then to the finish about 20 nm of open water. Are there any '26 want to come a join us ?
cheers, |
"Splinter" |
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Colin Cole
Helmsman
Australia
676 Posts |
Posted - 08 February 2006 : 10:20:54 PM
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26s rule, they will sail away from a 30 in scratch conditions - any weather anytime around an olympic track.
Adrian is right, sorry Copey but its true.
:(
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Colin Cole
Helmsman
Australia
676 Posts |
Posted - 08 February 2006 : 10:21:46 PM
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| correction - a well sailed top marker type boat. |
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David
Helmsman
Australia
232 Posts |
Posted - 08 February 2006 : 11:17:43 PM
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Ok,
The 28
LOA 8.5M
LWL 7.2M
Beam 2.9M
with it's nice rounded body and wide flat bum it's got to be the fastest.
If only i could sail it quick[:-banghead]
David. |
If vegeterians love animals, why do they eat their food? |
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Chris Cope
Skipper
Australia
2350 Posts |
Posted - 09 February 2006 : 10:01:57 AM
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David,
There is no reason why the Bon Doobie should not go fast and in theory should beat the E26s, even the Irish ones! She has won regattas before and should do so again. Its' just a matter of practice, crew work, time, effort & money. It took the Hagar boys many years to refine their E26 but they finally got her going with winning results. May I suggest that you find a sailing master-mentor to help you sail her and advise on the boats restoration, maintenence, as well as set-up & systems.
Rome was not built in a day.
We are continually working on the Hagar IV, but also enjoy racing and cruising her with hardly a weekend not going by with some job being completed.
You will get there David, just keep at it.
Chris. |
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david_eastwood
Main Sheet Hand
124 Posts |
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Chris Cope
Skipper
Australia
2350 Posts |
Posted - 09 February 2006 : 6:21:23 PM
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David,
All these sites are mainly concerned with water line length in boats as they are in the ninety degree upright position and as most boats are rarely sailed in the this position the models do not take into account the actual wetted water line lengths. The E30 has a much extended water line when on the heel due to the fat sides. It is this length which interests me and we will try and measure on the weekend. What our old sailing mentor Pete tells us is that the IOR rule increased the length making these boats quicker upwind by increasing their water line length, but to the detriment of their performance off the breeze.
I'm also awaiting to see the actual race times of the top craft in the last race in which we finished well into the E26 fleet after giving them a five minute start. In most of the earlier races we were about two to three minutes off the pace from Mackay Marine but felt we did better in the last race. We are still sailing an original boat with out a shaved keel or stripped out interior and with 10 year old headsails.
Chris. |
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Topic |
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A New E30
