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LCJOHNSTON
Helmsman
Australia
258 Posts |
 Posted - 27 December 2006 : 6:56:17 PM
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| For Amro to take the line honours lead by sailing past the much longer boats means he would have been pushing very hard. With the wind against the east coast current (I think they were a way off shore), the waves would have been very steep and probably no backs on them. If you are pushing hard, the trick is not to come off the top of one of those into midair (the mast tends to want to pile drive through the bottom of the boat if you do). Those big boat guys are all incredibly experienced though, and Amro in particular has obviously done some really hard yards in the recent Volvo. So who knows what went and why at the moment. For thsoe interested in a smaller boat - have a read of what the skipper of "Ray White Koolomoloo" has to say on the Rolex site about what happened to break her - a solid 43 foot wooden boat. |
Leigh Ex E30 MkII "Caroline" Hobart |
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Go Flow
Helmsman
Australia
751 Posts |
Posted - 27 December 2006 : 9:43:35 PM
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Hi All,
Re Hobart Race: The rate of attrition of yachts and rigging seems too high to me. Obviously the conditions in the Hobart race are more testing than some of the shorter races up an down the coast from Sydney. I wonder about the safety of the older wooden craft in the wave conditions encountered. The failure rate of the maxi yachts suggest that the designers are not doing their jobs.
Adrian |
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Chris Cope
Skipper
Australia
2350 Posts |
Posted - 28 December 2006 : 12:05:00 PM
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Interesting that last night Scandia closed up on Wild Oats and this morning W.Oats skipped away and is consistently going quicker.
It might be that the brains trust aboard the W.Oats is playing it safe, just like Nicorette did two years ago when the two big maxis were going full on and both broke their boats, while the Nicorette sailied conservatively, went inshore and hugged the East Tassie coastline to finish and got got line honours from behind the two bigger boats.
The problem with these new boats is that they are at the cutting edge and there is a lot of try and see. It also sounds like the big sloops need baby stays to minimise mast compression. I think you have some experience in that area Adrian?
The Maximus lost a mast last year at the Hamilton Island. Races.
Chris. |
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Robert Simmons
Helmsman
Australia
420 Posts |
Posted - 28 December 2006 : 12:49:07 PM
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We have a guy over here regularly breaking masts, tearing off rudders and general rig problems offshore in his 50+ footer coz he puts up too much rag. It's not rocket science, but it is the Sydney to Hobart, therein lies the problem....he who finishes with the most toys wins.
Could have a slight problem tacking with those overlapping genoas and an inner forestay, that's a lot of sail to somehow get around.
Rob
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Drink wine, and you will sleep well. Sleep well, and you will not sin. Avoid sin, and you will be saved. Ergo, drink wine and you will be saved.
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Sasha
Helmsman
838 Posts |
Posted - 28 December 2006 : 1:40:22 PM
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Skandia is going slower because they broke off their forward foil....so they cannot sail close to the wind. They either have to lock the keel in the middle and lose a lot of sail or they can cant the keel as normal and be making tons of leeway...bit of a bugger, and the reason that Wild Oates is dancing away.
this makes the third year that Skandia has hit a sunfish on the syndey to hobart and lost some part of itself to the bottom of bass straight. |
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The more I know about horses, the more I love sailboats.
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Colin Cole
Helmsman
Australia
676 Posts |
Posted - 28 December 2006 : 7:04:45 PM
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Hey Chris, if a 28' million year old ****a can go in it - wot of the mighty Hagar trundling south next year?
Second thoughts! if you got there we would never hear the end of it :) |
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4Seasons
Helmsman
723 Posts |
Posted - 28 December 2006 : 9:54:45 PM
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| Col, how could you be so unkind...E.H. |
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Chris Cope
Skipper
Australia
2350 Posts |
Posted - 29 December 2006 : 04:17:57 AM
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Port Hacking is about as far south as I'm prepared to travel in the Hagar, although a few E30s' have done it in years gone past. However both the E24's & E26s' well sailed and set up could do it easily, even for poor old men like you chaps.
Rod has expressed an interest in doing a Hobart, he has done a few himself, but he can lead me out, too darn cold!
Chris. |
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Chris Cope
Skipper
Australia
2350 Posts |
Posted - 29 December 2006 : 7:55:32 PM
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Yesterday afternoon I tooped off to Whitworths and purchased a deep cycle Remco 12V 100AH/20HR battery which is a sealed non-acid type. It is to be used to replace the house battery which is acid and not holding a charge.
Later we went out to the boat with the sailmaker to measure her up. Although both batteries appeared to be fully charged and reading 12 volts the motor would not start with the starter just going tick, tick. I'm told that it is the starter brushes jammed. Got in contact with a marine engine mechanic and hopefully he can fix it before new year.
Chris. |
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Sasha
Helmsman
838 Posts |
Posted - 29 December 2006 : 8:22:41 PM
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As a bit of advice, if you are spending several hundred dollars replacing a battery anyway.... Consider spending about another $30 and getting a gel-pack battery cushion to sit it on. batteries really suffer from being knocked about, and a boat ina seaway with the battery sitting on the floor and having all the shocks of waves transmitted to it will not be all it could be, in terms of both storage cycle and longevity.
Whitworths used to carry the gel-pack cushions, I know that 4X4 off road type shops still carry them. (because four wheel drives seriously bounced around off road suffer the same type of issues with the battery).
Not worth doing it for an existing battery, and maybe not worth doing if you are just using a 30-40dollar car battery to get things started and make the running lights go on the few occassionas you have had it out after dark....But if you are going for the serious deep cycle or AGM marine batteries...it could buy you an extra few years out of the units.
Oh yeah...on the topic of the races to Tasmania...I think posseiden is sitting in Bass straight and in need of toothpics at the moment. Famous Melbourne boat BOOTS was competing in the Melbourne to Hobart and was all of few hours into Bass Straight in about 14knots of wind, going conservatively with a very small spinnaker used for fine night-time conditions when her mast came down for no apparent reason. Better yet, the halyards fouled the prop shaft and the wind was pushing the boat into a collision with an oil rig (just adding insult to injury, and it is not like you can ask the rig to move out of your way). With the rig about 300 meters away they finally managed to cut the tangle free and fire up the motor to limp back to Melbourne.
Boots has done the Melbourne to Osaka race, about six sydney to Hobarts and hundreds of other races including Hamilton Island and Hogs Breath. She is an incredibly strong nd well sailed boat that runs on the principal of get there safely and comfortably, and the speed will take care of itself.
The skipper was somwhat bemused at having lost the rig in "nothing" conditions.
Sasha
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The more I know about horses, the more I love sailboats.
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4Seasons
Helmsman
723 Posts |
Posted - 29 December 2006 : 9:26:39 PM
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| Chris, do my eyes decieve me ,or did i really see words of praise from you for those dreadfull little 24s and 26s, you dissapoint me.E.H |
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Colin Cole
Helmsman
Australia
676 Posts |
Posted - 30 December 2006 : 12:06:00 AM
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yeah well I was baffled too when our mast came down!
I'm sure it had nil to do with the 4 thousand pound backstay pressure, the "lets just wind a few more turns on the (already over tight) turnbuckles" or the piano wire tight inner forstay, or the 500 kgs of lard hangin over the side, or the 35 year old Canberra light post section, or the 300 holes where old fittings had been - nah, buggered if I know why it came down :)
The things you do to try to win huh.
PS Copey - I too have done a few trips south - I ain't about to go again not in a 26'a or a 226'a, too dam cold and tooooo dammmm uncomfortable, Kogarah Bay to Brissy waters will see me out. |
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Chris Cope
Skipper
Australia
2350 Posts |
Posted - 30 December 2006 : 08:31:26 AM
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Thanks for your advise Sasha, I'll have a look to see what Whitworths have this morning, they are just down the hill from where we live. The problem might be that the spots where the batteries live will be too small and tight to fit a battery holder.
Can you tell me anything about solinoids & Starter motors?
Chris. |
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Sasha
Helmsman
838 Posts |
Posted - 30 December 2006 : 11:31:23 AM
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Yes, that it is almost impossible to just get and replace a solonoid. That they will sell you a new or rconditioned starter motor witht he solonoid in place as a unit.
The reason for this is that if the sonoid is broken, the starter motor proper will be damaged within a few minutes of its demise in 99% of cases...and if the starter motor is dead, then the solanoid is so comparitevly cheap that it makes no sense to not replace it at the same time (lest it turns out that the old solanoid did have a problem and it now wrecks your new starter)
For the un-initiated, a quick overview. The starter motor consists of two distinct units. The motor and the solonoid (this is the thing that looks liek a smaller unit bolted to the the side of the main unit). What happens when you send power down the cables is that that solonoid, which is an electrical actuator (means it moves in a linear way like a piston instead of spinning like an normal electric motor) fires up and pulls the central shaft of the starter motor proper forwards into the flywheel of the engine. Thsi engages the drive cog teeth of the starter motor to the teeth on the edge of the flywheel. If you have ever tried starting an engine where the battery was nearly flat and have heard that initial "click" sound before the starter motor started to pathetically growl, that click (and the clack that follows when you take your hand off the key) is the solonoid engaging and disengaging the starter motor's drive cog onto the engine's flywheel.
Once the solonoid has doen its thing and the cogs are meshed, the starter motor itself spins up and winds the engine until it fires up. You then let go fo the key and it springs back one position. This takes power away form the solonoid and it pulls the starter motor cog away form the flywheel while the engine goes spinning on its way. If it FAILS TO DISENGAGE either because the solonoid is faulty (initially unlikely) or the ignition key switch is buggered (far more likely) and retains a connection that bleeds power to the solonoid and leaves it engaged, then you have a world of problems. Firstly, you are losing a fair bit of engine power and putting stresses where they ought not to be, secondly, your starter motor is now an unregulated and unbalanced GENERATOR that is going to dump tons of power into your batteries with no regard for when to stop. We had this happen to one of our cars and the AGM battery I was using in it literally tried to inflate like a balloon to almost spherical proportions. A whole bunch of stuff got fried and it was not a happy day at all. Just a thought.
My suggestiong would be to check the wire runs all the way from the ignition switch (including the switch itself) to the starter motor and the ground lines before just swapping it over. Could be you don't need a new starter and will find and fix the problem, or it could be that you swap in a new starter and find that the problem that killed the old one is just going to eat the new one in short order too.
Sasha
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The more I know about horses, the more I love sailboats.
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Edited by - Sasha on 30 December 2006 7:52:59 PM |
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Chris Cope
Skipper
Australia
2350 Posts |
Posted - 30 December 2006 : 9:43:30 PM
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Good heavens Sasha, it sounds like fun, with the battery blowing up and frying stuff!
Anyway Rod along with Dave the Diver & myself went out this evening and the bloody engine fired up staight away! We stopped her and then the fun began. She did eventually start after we checked the oil level, which was over filled by about 250%. So we motored into the Marina and also found that there was no water coming out of the exhaust, but lots of smoke. Checked and found the rubber cold water inlet pipe flattened.
So we tied up and found the skin fitting blocked up and flushed it out with a piece of dowell rod off a curtain rail in the boat. Also cleaned out the filter and re-assembled it all.
Got the oil pump from our club, was then kicked off the marina, they really have a service proplem at the Davis Marina! Back on the mooring we pumped out the excess oil and then ran some tests with Dave, who is an ex airline engineer. The bloody motor stated evey time no problems. What was happening was that when we went off racing and finished a race the boat was laid over on her side and was spreading oil into the pistons because it was overfilled with oil. There are four lights which should come on to indicate that the motor is OK to start, however the oil light was not coming on and the starter would just click. Some times later the light would come on and, hey presto she would fire up.
Sooo, we summise that the excess oil in the sup was causing something to keep the oil light off and cause the electics not to properly enguage.
Anyway, tomorrow morning we will try her again and take her for a good motor run, as well as fisx a few other things. The main electric battery power switch is going and I'll purchase a new one from whitworths.
Chris. |
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Chris Cope
Skipper
Australia
2350 Posts |
Posted - 31 December 2006 : 5:45:29 PM
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Well today Rod & I put in a days work alongside the marina aboard the Hagar. We installed a new house battery after finding the one I initially purchased was a little too big, and they weigh a tonne! The engine was good and started OK nearly every time first time. We then installed a new main power switch, but although it was connected up OK, or looked to be, the darn thing would not work properly. While Rod was trying to get it going I took apart the old swith and cleaned it out. We then re-connected up the old switch and, it worked OK. We also got her ready for the trip up the coast with some new pits and pieces as well as fuses and light globe replacements and made a few final rig adjustments.
Chris. |
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Chris Cope
Skipper
Australia
2350 Posts |
Posted - 05 January 2007 : 11:37:49 AM
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Now Rod & I took the Hagar out for a very late quick sail on New Years day. We hoisted main & Jib after motoring off the mooring without incident. We sailed across the bay to Manly and when nearly home Rod attempted to start the engine. The same dammed problem, with the solinoid clicking and not firing up the engine. So we sailed back onto the mooring and dropped the sails. After the boat was level Rod again attempted to start the engine, and hay-presto! the ruddy thing started first go.
After much muterings and the consumption of a few brown sedatives back at the Club we surrendered and agreed to call in the experts.
And so yesterday with Rod on his annual holidays and in the company of Old Pete he took the boat engineer out to the Hagar.
The following description is a second hand account of what the Engineer said and the remedies that he instituted and this account is what Rod told me. It may not be 100%.
He found that the imported Volvo 10HP Diesel was designed for a steel hulled craft and therefore has a lot of extas which are not needed on the Hagar, being of glass construction.
There are two solinoids on the motor which is designed to stop electrolisis.
The engine is positively earthed rather than negatively.
He re-wired her bye-passing one of the solinoids and took out the oil sensor.
He explained that the Volvo electronic ignition switch system have a number of integrated sensors. He also created a wire to bye-pass the ignition so that we can effectively hot wire start her if there are any future problems.
And so we are hopeful that his efforts have remedied our problem and will test her out tonight with a return to twilight racing at Manly.
Chris.
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Chris Cope
Skipper
Australia
2350 Posts |
Posted - 05 January 2007 : 10:20:04 PM
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This evening we motored out into North Harbour for the evening twilighter race and had the engine running for at least half an hour and all was OK.
Upon completion of the race, which was won by an Endeavour Yacht! The only other Endeavour in the fleet. She is a black hulled E24 with some reasonabley new looking sails.
Anyway upon completiion of the race Rod tried to fire up the engine and found the same old problem of no firing and just a clicking of the solinoid.
Bummer!!
And, just to be contrairy, the bloody thing started up easily when we had returned to the mooring securly tied up.
Chris. |
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4Seasons
Helmsman
723 Posts |
Posted - 05 January 2007 : 10:55:39 PM
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| Bad connections, bad earth,have you checked your starter button/switch ,sometimes my batt switch jacks up, E.H (50 years in the motor trade ) |
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Chris Cope
Skipper
Australia
2350 Posts |
Posted - 07 January 2007 : 7:12:43 PM
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Eric,
I'm no sparky or engine mechanic, only Andy has a hankering to play with motors. We have already paid good money for a technician to fix her and the results are not there. The engine will not start after been sailing, until she has leveled out and is happy! The boat is just behaving badly and a bit like a woman. So Rod is going back to the teco and he can come back and have another go. However I have a feeling that it is a Volvo electronics gremlin in the system and no normal sparky or mechanic will fix this problem.
We will be at Gosford though, with Rod and Pete sailing up on Thursday and motoring up the channel first light on Friday morning.
Rod and Pete will also be fixing the halliard problem as well as anything else. Dave the diver will be scrubbing the Hagar's bottom about Wednesday. See you Friday.
Chris |
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A New E30
