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Chris Cope
Skipper
Australia
2350 Posts |
 Posted - 03 February 2007 : 07:09:24 AM
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Leigh,
The wire in the rig is now about two years old and had plenty of time to settle in. We keep tensioning up the rig and checking the tension with the callibration instrument and the boat just goes better. Which is good, however I'm worrying that something is stretching and after the port side inner shroud plate bent and tore I'm a little nervous. We replaced the plate with a heavier SS one but have not yet replaced the starboard shroud plate. We check the rig tension when there is no wind and the boat is flat and steady on the water. However we have not let off the main and it is always tied down with the main halliard attached to the boom end. The backstay is a block & tackle system which is marked and always off when initially tested.
Thanks for your advise and I will check the starboard shroud plate for stretch and talk with Rod about the boom.
How is the Sirroco going?
Regards,
Chris. |
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LCJOHNSTON
Helmsman
Australia
258 Posts |
Posted - 04 February 2007 : 04:31:07 AM
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Chris,
Still lots of bits being done on Sirocco.
One of those things is I just bought a Loos PT3 (one of those fancy rig gauges that you can leave on and see change while you adjust) - got it to compare my boat with other Northshore 38's with the same rig as I was unsure about what the tension should be. I know the boom is longer than an Endeavour, but even having the boom sheeted on a bit or flopping out to one side seemed to give a different reading while I was doing my checks. And I know the fractional swept back rig is different too, but the back stay totally changed the upper and lower tensions (stands to reason when you think about it).
Just got the storm sails back from getting hi viz, so now have her well in excess of cat 3 ready for the Bruny island race next weekend.
Have started making a proper battery box (pretty dodgy standard setup with plastic boxes at present and only one house battery).
The new switchboard is started now after my joiner mate cut the sheet of teak ply from a pattern we made - need to mark it out for all the gear then get all the joinery donw. Switchboard is presently in the standard dodgy Northshore spot down low that gets collected by the halyards when you throw them down the companionway into the cabin.
So plenty on, but plan to get away cruising for 9 days in early March - have three weekends with racing prior (Bruny Island approx 90 miles next weekend, following Saturday an afternoon race, then a five race regatta from Friday arvo, Sat and Sun).
Hope all goes well with sorting your rig out!
Cheers |
Leigh Ex E30 MkII "Caroline" Hobart |
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Chris Cope
Skipper
Australia
2350 Posts |
Posted - 04 February 2007 : 8:34:09 PM
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High Leigh,
It sounds like you have it pretty much under control. Rod bought a PTM2 Series Tensioner and we have been playing with it and have been getting better and better racing results as we have tensioned up the rig.
To any others who are interested may I suggest you do a Google Search on:
"Rig tensioning masthead rigs".
There is a heap of information on how to do it and it is surprising the improvement you will get out your boat.
Rod tensioned up the Hagars rig on Friday afternoon and we got a very close second over the line in a handicap start fleet of 40 odd yachts. We have been steadily improving in the fleet but mainly from 5th to 12th.
Chris. |
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Chris Cope
Skipper
Australia
2350 Posts |
Posted - 07 February 2007 : 5:22:19 PM
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This afternoon I enrolled myself to attend the:
"MARINE DIESEL ENGINES FOR BEGINNERS",
on Saturday the 10th of February 2007.
It is being held at Marine Stainless, 5 Gorard Street, North Manly, 2100.
The contact is: Laurence on 0415 155 966 or 99390122.
There will also be another course sometime in April.
Chris. |
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DougT
Main Sheet Hand
Australia
120 Posts |
Posted - 07 February 2007 : 6:20:51 PM
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| A rig tension guage would really be helpful. Where are they available? |
DougT |
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Chris Cope
Skipper
Australia
2350 Posts |
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DougT
Main Sheet Hand
Australia
120 Posts |
Posted - 08 February 2007 : 12:58:23 PM
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| Thanks for the prompt response. Maybe I'll ask a couple of others if they're interested. |
DougT |
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Colin Cole
Helmsman
Australia
676 Posts |
Posted - 09 February 2007 : 08:41:35 AM
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they are called a looooooser guage! sorry loos gauge - B 4 u get one Doug - adjust the lowers so as they feel tightish, then the main cap shrouds a bit slacker (only a little) than the inners (no back stay at this stage)check the track up the mast - no snaking or twist, wind in plenty of inner forstay - so it feels more than the lowers - ie a little pre bend in the stick with out back stay - then pull on the b/s and feel the forstay at different settings ie should move an inch or two when a little b/s is on (for real light stuff) pull more on less movement - 1 inchish - more (this should be near your max effort on b/s unless you got 32 to 1 or so on adjustment) hardly any sideways movment in the forestay - heavy weather.
Anyway thats how I go about it - and it seems to serve us well :) Looooooser guage - I got one somewhere but not for me! |
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DougT
Main Sheet Hand
Australia
120 Posts |
Posted - 09 February 2007 : 11:48:20 AM
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Generally, when setting up the mast I've started by getting it plumb, taking up some slack on the lowers then working on the caps to achieve a "firm but not tight" (whatever that means) tension continually sighting up the mast to ensure it remains plumb. Then it's back to the lowers, first the forwards, tightening to the same "firm but not tight " measure and continually sighting up the mast. The aft lowers follow and are allowed less tension than the forwards as the backstay, when tensioned, will shift the centre of the mast forward and some leeway in the lowers is needed to accommodate this. Finally the forestay.
The whole lot is then checked under sail on each tack to see what shapes the mast takes up and making adjustments to caps and lowers. Forestay lay off is checked also. Final adjustments are then done back at the mooring after checking the mast remains in column and then checked again while sailing.
Further tensioning takes place as the wire stretches.
Having said that it would be good to run a gauge over the wire to achieve more precise measurement and even tension. |
DougT |
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Chris Cope
Skipper
Australia
2350 Posts |
Posted - 10 February 2007 : 08:31:06 AM
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Last night twilighter saw us having the recurring engine starting problem. So we sailed off the mooring and to the start line with a few minutes to spare. Later, having come to the conclusion that the race could not be completed by the cut off time of 8.15pm we elected to go home and with the wind all but gone it was time for the iron sail. Thankfully Murray, one of our casual forward hands is an engineer and knows how to bleed the fuel lines. We had come to the conclusion that she was starved of fuel and there was most likely air in the injectors or fuel lines. Murray in quick time opened a nut on the top of the fuel filter and tweeked a hidden finger pump, which I never knew existed and bled the line of air until fuel came out.
First try of the starter and she fired and ran smoothly!
We never stop learning about this E30! Amazing!!
Chris. |
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Chris Cope
Skipper
Australia
2350 Posts |
Posted - 10 February 2007 : 8:11:30 PM
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Today I attended the Marine Diesel Engines day course at Manly. It was conducted by Maurence Burgin of Marine Stainless.
This company offers a range of boaters services ranging from a Catalogue Order Service on all hardware related goods for boats to custom made stainless fittings, Training courses to Marine Mechanical & Electrical Services.
The course was very professional and related and was hands-on.
Enjoyed the course and learnt a heap about the Diesel Iron Sail.
Chris. |
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Go Flow
Helmsman
Australia
751 Posts |
Posted - 10 February 2007 : 8:14:20 PM
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Hi All,
Regarding the Loser Gauge.
I borrowed the Loos Gauge from son's Etchell. Set the Cap Shrouds to 18 scale units (200kgs tension), lowers to the same and the backstay to a position where forestay and backstay were both 18. We won our division and the club championship race for all divisions. So much for Col's Loser Gauge. Our prize courtesy of new sponsor, 12 x Crown lager plus Wolf Blass chardonney.
Adrian |
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Chris Cope
Skipper
Australia
2350 Posts |
Posted - 10 February 2007 : 9:37:10 PM
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Congratulations Adrian,
Well done on an excellent win. The rig tension is important but also related to the cut of the sails as well as a hundred & one other things, which also includes the person holding the tiller.
Don't worry about oll king cole, he is most likely still celebrating his recent victory and consumed too many crowns.
We came back to earth last night, being at the back of the fleet and unable to finish in a dying southerly.
Chris. |
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4Seasons
Helmsman
723 Posts |
Posted - 11 February 2007 : 9:28:36 PM
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| Col and Doug, one says tight caps ,one says loose,what is a poor old fella to believe. Do you blokes have four lowers and no baby stay?? The web site suggested by Copey says almost universally tight caps ,its all too hard ,,,think ill buy a stink boat. the definition of a motor cruiser is A boat that the shags sh*t on all week and the sh*t shags on all the weekend..E.H |
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DougT
Main Sheet Hand
Australia
120 Posts |
Posted - 12 February 2007 : 12:05:40 PM
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| Eric, Endeavour began life with caps, aft lowers and and inner forestay. When the structural work was done below we changed to fore and aft lowers. We keep the caps relatively tight, the fore lowers the same and the aft lowers eased slightly (in relation to the fore lowers). That way, the mast can move forward as backstay tension is increased. It all seems to work and the mast is still in the boat, which also seems to point reasonably well, even in heavier breezes (if we set the sails correctly!). |
DougT |
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Chris Cope
Skipper
Australia
2350 Posts |
Posted - 12 February 2007 : 4:23:12 PM
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Jobs on the HAGAR IV.
The work list is never ending and after finishing the Diesel Engine Course on Saturday I'm feeling inspired to keep pushing ahead.
The major jobs which still need addressing include:
1. Emptying the fuel tank and cutting out and installing an inspection hatch. This will facilitate the cleaning of the tank out hopefully of all the years of built-up growth, grime, slime nasties and 33 years of crap.
2. It should also allow us to have installed a fuel tank gauge. Hopefully one manual and one electronic.
3. We will also exchange the lower fuel taps, which are old brass and very small.
4. We will also install a lower tap in the fuel tank base to drain the slime.
Most of this will be done by the mechanics who did our electrical work on the starter system last week and which is now working fine.
5. Some of the Nav Lights also need attention & replacing.
6. The kites are going into the sail-maker to be measured for "J" curve and to determine the correct pole length and position on the mast when set.
7. But my immediate job is to clean up the engine and the bilge which are a bit dirty.
So that will be a good start.
Chris.
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Chris Cope
Skipper
Australia
2350 Posts |
Posted - 14 February 2007 : 6:41:50 PM
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We have now had the Hagar for almost two seasons of racing, and have, and continue to work out what makes the E30 go at it's best speed, or more specifically in what position the boat goes best. Considering she is a three & a half tonne displacement hull, she rarely gets up and plane and never upwind. In fact it is only off the wind with a swell that we can get her to surf waves and exceed her water-line length speed.
In fact the water line speed we belive is a maximum of around six knots.
To achieve this speed upwind there are a number of factors and things that have to in place, and these include:
1. The hull should be leaning to leeward which is easy in a decent breeze.
2. The boat should be balanced so that the full length of her wetted surface is employed. This means that the bulk of the crew are in the centre of the boat, which is around the shrouds or behind them. This moveable ballast, the crew, should be spread depending upon the wind strength. In the strong stuff we are all up on the rails with our legs over the side and thinking heavy! In the light we spread out to leeward to maintain the optimum boat heel.
3. The trim of the sails and set position is very important to make best use and to either power her up or down as the wind strength dictates and this may necessitate a light crew member working the leeward headsail winch.
4. Luff tensions of main & jib will also contribute to being powered up or down via halliard & cunningham tension as well as leach line tensions.
5. The backstay tension will also help and should be adjusted to suite the conditions.
6. We also pull the main traveller to windward and center the leach of the main and work the traveller through the gusty stuff.
7. We have found that the internal weight of the boat does not have a great affect, only that in very light conditions being lighter technically should be an advantage. While in the heavy stuff having everything in the centre of the boat and down low is also advantageous.
While sailing downwind in the light we have found that by keeping the bow down and employing the hull length we get much better boat speed, while in the heavy stuff under poled out jib or kite we keep well back, but the boat is normally very safe.
So what makes you boat go?
Chris. |
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moakley
Helmsman
Australia
158 Posts |
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moakley
Helmsman
Australia
158 Posts |
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Chris Cope
Skipper
Australia
2350 Posts |
Posted - 17 February 2007 : 10:29:10 AM
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Hi Micheal,
Looking forward to hearing about the progress of your E26 as well as seeing you & Sasha in Sydney if you can get up for the Diesel course. You two are welcome to stay with us if you need to. The course is a mixture of lectures and hands on. Last night I had to again bleed the fuel lines at the top of the fuel pump as well as the injector to get our engine started and running.
There is most likely a leaky seal or fuel pipe because she needs bleeding each time we go out, although she started first time after last nights race and that is a first.
I'll be working on the Hagar this weekend cleaning the bilge, fixing the automatic bilge pump and testing the engine.
Chris.
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Topic |
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A New E30
