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jim curtis
Deck Hand
Australia
9 Posts |
 Posted - 23 June 2005 : 10:29:59 PM
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hi guys and dolls - as far as I am aware I'm addressing the E23 Viking interested fraternity here. my name is Jim - when serious sailing they used to call me Jumbo (among other things). I have owned an E23 (Hagar)for some 20 years and love it but the unfortunates of location and land locked water with earlier strict local regulations of no mechanical propulsion or capable of mechanical propulsion caused no end of upset - hence good reason to buy our own waterfront place in Tassie and set about moving there. (Have never considered not having Hagar) At the current stage of refit etc., I have replaced the Bukh20 with a Bukh36
- added autohelm and some other serious SOLAS cruising bits plus stern davits and dinghy (30kg)- which can also be carried inverted in the davits for quite obvious reasons when outside and with quick release mechanism -
and enclosed the coachhouse (short version) to weatherproof astern (and everywhere else I hope). Also added a two foot sixteen inch wide bowsprit and modified the pulpit to make a nice sunny place to get away from it all. The whole set up is now having a custom made trailer built to move it to (a) anywhere I want to move it for any reason I want to do this, and (b)to move it on the ferry to Tassie - neither of which has thus far presented what I would call a satisfactory commercial alternative on a whole of cost and involvement basis. It is a very expensive process to cross Bass Strait by commercial boat transporter. For anyone within the boating fraternity interested in doing this - do not be dismayed - if you're a trailer sailor and your boat has your own trailer - crossing the strait on its' own trailer towed by a passenger vehicle - the cost is much more modest. It works on total length of vehicle and trailer. Currently (ex Melbourne) about $186 for the first 7 metres then plus $27 per metre. Towing vehicle must be a passenger carrying vehicle ie., not a truck. What that definition is - don't know. Nuf sed.
WOT I AM CHASING.
According to information that I do have from one of the original E23 Viking advertising blurbs - ex a SEACRAFT mag of the time for the
E23 VIKING :-
(A) Displacement 1400 kg.
(B) Ballast 400 kg., and
(C) Longitudinal CG - mid length.
To avoid a lot of messing around trying to verify what (A) means to indicate ie., lightswhip or fully laden and whether (B) is intended to indicate a maximum load of 400 kg - ie., the difference between lightship and laden displacement and., whether the information at (C) is known from any authentic document or source to be correct - accuracy here counts mainly toward putting the boat on a trailer and where the bogie is balanced to put about 100 kg on the towball of the trailer etc., and total towed load (2000 kg or fit a lot of gear to the trailer and review what it is towed by).
Additionally - if anyone can help with the above they may also know the dimensions and reference points for the original CG and centre of buoyancy (CB). From the mods and calculations that I have done I do know how far and by what amount I have shifted the CG - what I don't know is where this shifted from ie., where CG was in detail in the original design.It's easy enough to work out in the water which presently I am not.
Thanks in anticipation - Jumbo |
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Sasha
Helmsman
838 Posts |
Posted - 23 June 2005 : 11:03:50 PM
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Displacement. In this case it seems to refer to the total weight of the boat including ballast.
Ballast, strictly means the weight of the keel.
Overall length (before you added a bowsprit) right on 7meters
Balance point seems to be just on the aft wall of the icebox. so a foot or two back form there ought to do it. Why not just build the trailer with a sliding wheel bogey? Cost is nearly the same and the versatility is vastly improved. Failing that, build the trailer for the balance point and then artificially control the downward pressure on towball by loading stuff in the bow (like moving the batteries up there). Since the boat will go on the trailer a little differently every time, some weight distribution is always going to need to be done.
By the way 100kg of reccomended down-weight is an extraordinarily heavy duty towbar! I may be out of line, but perhaps you need to double check the recommended figures for it.(most are in the 40-70kg ideal range...But of course they do not max-out till much much more.)
I am reading all this from the big blue endeavour book, so if you want any other specific information, I would be happy to provide it.
I live in Melbourne and would love to get a look at this beasty as you head for the Spirit of Tasmania. Any chance of getting a phone call. I will happily come down to the dock, buy the coffee and take a close look at my first E23 in the flesh.
Cheers.
Sasha
(03)95623292
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The more I know about horses, the more I love sailboats.
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Edited by - Sasha on 23 June 2005 11:10:06 PM |
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Splinter
Helmsman
Australia
500 Posts |
Posted - 23 June 2005 : 11:22:18 PM
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good evening Jumbo,
Welcome Aboard, you are the first '23 Viking owner we have run into and the 3rd Tassweegen. I suppore in the near future you will catch up with Ian & Susan Marshall and Leigh Johnston. Also Endeavour owners and I hope more of us.
Bummer you can't make it for the October weekend but your weekend sounds fantastic and lets hope we get a bit of a report on the Cruising forum. I think we in New South look at Tasmania with ore and are jealous.
I just had a look at the Endeavour Blue Book as I have never seen a Viking.
ENDEAVOUR 23 VIKING
Here is the boat for anyone who demands a simple, easily handled family boat for extended cruising under sail or power. Priced from $12,000 including 13 hp Bukh diesel, this centre cockpit, double ended motor sailer is real value.
LOA 7.0
Beam 2.6
ENDEAVOUR 23 SHOAL DRAFT
The "all yacht" trailer sailer with offshore race potential and inbuild strength and reliability.
LOA 7.0
LWL 5.8
Beam 2.4
Jumbo, that was what is was of the original advertising brochers.
I would think about the 1970's
There is quiet a bit in the Blue book about the '23, they are out of print so if you what the articles let me know your fax number and or email address and I could scan it and send it to you.
Please stay in touch, and if possible a few photo would be great and more of your exploits and experiences.
cheers
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"Splinter" |
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jim curtis
Deck Hand
Australia
9 Posts |
Posted - 24 June 2005 : 1:30:57 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Splinter
good evening Jumbo,
Welcome Aboard, you are the first '23 Viking owner we have run into and the 3rd Tassweegen. I suppore in the near future you will catch up with Ian & Susan Marshall and Leigh Johnston. Also Endeavour owners and I hope more of us.
Bummer you can't make it for the October weekend but your weekend sounds fantastic and lets hope we get a bit of a report on the Cruising forum. I think we in New South look at Tasmania with ore and are jealous.
I just had a look at the Endeavour Blue Book as I have never seen a Viking.
ENDEAVOUR 23 VIKING
Here is the boat for anyone who demands a simple, easily handled family boat for extended cruising under sail or power. Priced from $12,000 including 13 hp Bukh diesel, this centre cockpit, double ended motor sailer is real value.
LOA 7.0
Beam 2.6
ENDEAVOUR 23 SHOAL DRAFT
The "all yacht" trailer sailer with offshore race potential and inbuild strength and reliability.
LOA 7.0
LWL 5.8
Beam 2.4
Jumbo, that was what is was of the original advertising brochers.
I would think about the 1970's
There is quiet a bit in the Blue book about the '23, they are out of print so if you what the articles let me know your fax number and or email address and I could scan it and send it to you.
Please stay in touch, and if possible a few photo would be great and more of your exploits and experiences.
cheers
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jim curtis
Deck Hand
Australia
9 Posts |
Posted - 24 June 2005 : 3:14:10 PM
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hi Splinter - thanks for the reply - expect to meet up with quite a few 'friendlies' in Tassie as the whole move settles into domesticity at the new location. more chat to follow later. you can get me on email marleycurtis@netspeed.com.au (Kate Marley is the bride - and a very competent quilter and crafty things doer).
I do have a copy of the original Seacraft article so suggest you be the judge re ex Blue book (which I have never seen but will look out for one)information. I have driven most of the Endeavours under various circumstances since they first appeared including on long coastal cruises but not often enough. Even ocean racing in the big stuff I inevitably saddened as we turned to go home but moreso when cruising. (Not that I didn't like home and family). I am now 73 years young and intend to do Tassie like Tasman did - with a good boat - enthusiasm - and tons of curiosity. Hagar should get a fair workout and I expect to find its (and/or my 'now') limits. The Abel Tasman landing monument is about a kilometre down the beach from our new home. Thanks for the help -
Regards Jumbo. |
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jim curtis
Deck Hand
Australia
9 Posts |
Posted - 24 June 2005 : 9:33:01 PM
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hi Sasha - thanks for the reply - the problem appears to be misinterpreted. I listed what I know from reasonable authority. It might be useful to note for this discussion that half length (3.5 metres or 11.5) has been stated as the position of the longitudinal CG., then -
(A) Displacement is stated in documents as
1400kg.,
(B) Ballast is stated at 400 kg.
The problem centres on what these terms were meant to convey to the beholder (user). As you have approached this - you use the term 'seems' regarding displacement ('seems' is the cause of this problem) - then go on to use 'is'
relating to ballast. The truth of the matter is that there are legally several displacements
qualified by conditionals eg., lightship to laden ie., down to its 'marks' - waterline displacement, deadweight displacement. Neither is ballast as clear cut as you suggest. There is a term ballast keel. To keep it simple - ballast is not a fixed thing on a boat. There is a keel which may be swing or fixed and it may carry extra weight to affect the ability of a hull to remain upright but ballast of itself is any mass used to affect the trim and/or stability of a hull or structure eg., cranes etc.. You can place ballast masses anywhere you want in a hull to bring about a particular effect on the attitude of the hull. Note also that the super-dooper squillion dollar yachts are now allowed to pump water into side tanks to do just that. Think about what Skandia was fitted with to influence its stability. A crew sitting out on the weather side is nothing more than human ballast while it is sitting somewhere for a particular purpose.
Hagar has two huge tanks - one fuel (port)and one fresh water (stbd)- I would be silly to have anything in either of these for transport by road. Two reasons - weight and surge - given a partially full tank and a long road distance to travel - surge would probably remove the tank from its mountings or rupture the tank. Consider 100 litres of diesel slopping
about in the bilge at the other end if you didn't think about it. Boats are merciless -
screw up and its 'gotcher'.
Sorry to be a pain - my question is simply whether displacement as stated in the Endeavour information is lightship or down to its marks 'laden' and full. I have, by rough calculation of mass and volume of fibreglass and fixed keel, engine and shafting, deduced that it could be laden because the figure I arrived at was sufficiently below to allow about 400 kg to be added. The real answer will come in about three weeks when the boat is trailer mounted and weighed. It must be gross incl trailer not exceeding 2000kg or the overide disc brake set up is illegal (over 2000kg must have breakaway 4 wheel hydraulic brakes etc.,) and the towing vehicle must be reviewed. If she does go over 2000kg mounted and there is no simple weight reduction answer then the engine can be taken out and carried on the back of the towing vehicle.
The VIKING was never meant as a simple trailer sailer.
Your comments on trailer are interesting. The
manufacturer of the trailer recommends 100 - 150kg download on the towbar for this trailer/boat combination. The whole dynamic is to keep weight on the wheels of the towing vehicle for traction and braking. The towing vehicle must comply to specified requirements and must exceed the weight of the towed trailer. If the trailer takes over then one quickly and clearly would realize that one has had better days. We also have insurance consequences and if you,re not compliant - guess wot!.
My trailer is a custom made flatbed frame, hot dip galvanised and does have adjustable sliding bogie with 4 wheel rocker suspension mounting light truck wheels and tyres, 2 wheel disc brakes and a 15 to 1 winch post loading over keel rollers with 2 removable posts each side mounting double rocking rollers for vertical support and conforms to current ADR's. The chassis frame is rated at payload of 28OOkg and is expected for delivery mid-July.
Thanks for your interest - nothing is as simple as it first appears nor is any problem insurmountable. I trust to have made useful input to you - also make sure CB is always above CG or you can have some awful bothers with boating. A Viking has plenty of CB above CG - about that I am sure but always check for wobbly.
Regards - Jim Curtis
ps - if you go into google pcuser and search 'endeavour viking' the first item up is a Viking for sale. jc
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Colin Cole
Helmsman
Australia
676 Posts |
Posted - 26 June 2005 : 10:29:02 PM
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Kevin, next time you are goin south over Cpt cook bridge, have a look at those few boats moored at the SSE end on the bridge - the one with the two sharp ends and a really small mast - its a Viking - they were/are a great boat, just didn't take off - Reg came up with that one after a trip to Scandinavia.
Col |
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Splinter
Helmsman
Australia
500 Posts |
Posted - 27 June 2005 : 4:15:42 PM
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Thanks Col, might take a drive down there to-morrow. With Jumbo's enthusisam they must have been a good thing.
That size around 23/26 can be comfortable if you use your head in setting them up. Especially a motor sailer with a good donk.
My first yacht was 23' and I had everything in it for comfort. The only thing was the Bride got sick and "was not happy Jan". So I bought a bigger, heavier and more stable yacht. The '30 so she still complains, so now I just go racing & Cruising and enjoy myself. She goes & shes her mother.
Now she doesn't get crook & I can enjoy my sailing, we are all happy.
cheers, |
"Splinter" |
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jim curtis
Deck Hand
Australia
9 Posts |
Posted - 27 June 2005 : 7:20:47 PM
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hi Colin - thanks for the interest and comments - I don't know whether the Blue Book contains photos or drawings but if one needs to see one there is a photo of one (in ketch rig) in google indexed search endeavour viking. They are a great boat and rarely come up for sale. The one listed under google is about bottom of price range current. Prices are arbitrary but my general awareness is of an average more centred about $25K. From what Splinter is saying it would be his kind of boat - bloody great to have full standing headroom in an enclosed dry cockpit - originally an enclosed through-hull sit down toilet but with current pollution regs and the bowel and bladder police active I have shifted to a good capacity porta-loo (in preference to holding tanks)- and the availability of the loo enclosure for electronics and hanging space makes more sense to me. The cockpit is big enough also to have a modesty curtain for the 'you know who' but a right size porta loo can be had that fits well nigh anywhere - also it is simple to rig an even modesty shower in the main cockpit with its drainage sump pump - already there - over the side is still a problem here so common sense and discretion - this makes more sense to me to fit a holding tank as convenient without the problems of a puncture as in sewage. I reckon it might be luv at first sight by the sounds of Splinter!!! They luv reaching and running (I like spinnakers but you need to upgrade the Vikings rigging and have quick and foolproof dousing) - there are not too many motor-sailers that like working. It is a true motor-sailer. I may dig in later on the virtues of these tiny 'pocket battleships' - they are truly great (big) little boats. Reg may well have used the expression - 'if its uncomfortable or rocks send it back' - Regards Jumbo
quote]Originally posted by Colin Cole
Kevin, next time you are goin south over Cpt cook bridge, have a look at those few boats moored at the SSE end on the bridge - the one with the two sharp ends and a really small mast - its a Viking - they were/are a great boat, just didn't take off - Reg came up with that one after a trip to Scandinavia.
Col
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ianwwatson
Main Sheet Hand
Australia
54 Posts |
Posted - 18 October 2005 : 10:14:33 AM
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G'day All, I just got around to looking at the E23 site for the first time, I didn't realise it refered to the Viking. I had a look at one for sale on a private canal berth in Paynesville on the Gippsland Lakes, just prior to buying my E26. It was pretty useless to me because of my size, but a very interesting vessel with heaps of character. An interesting part of it's history is that it's owned (if not sold by now) by an 83yo lady, who untill last year used to sail it single handed from Paynesville to what we call the back lake (Bunga Arm) and camp there overnight. She told me that the only reason she was selling it was that it was becoming a bit of a hassle for her berthing and casting off, so she is getting herself a small tinny. Oh to be thinking like that at 83!!!
Good sailing, Ian W.
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jim curtis
Deck Hand
Australia
9 Posts |
Posted - 18 October 2005 : 5:11:45 PM
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| Hi Ian W - Thanks - Vikings are like that - would like to say 'that's me mum's boat' but regret 83 is not old enough on age spec. Must be someone else. Enjoy the 26. Regards - Jumbo |
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Splinter
Helmsman
Australia
500 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2006 : 6:43:36 PM
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Hey Jumbo, I saw a Viking in Gymea Bay up here in Port Hacking.
This one is in very good conditiom and would appear to be loved and used regularly even though I have not seen it out on the Bay.
It even has the original "Endeavour" stickers on the coachhouse. She is original !!
Will keep and eye on her.
cheers, |
"Splinter" |
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akeir
Helmsman
Australia
269 Posts |
Posted - 14 June 2006 : 12:08:56 AM
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I saw a Viking at the Lagoon Yacht Club at Limeburners Cove Geelong Melbourne .. It's name is "Buttercup" I think I prefer a conventional Endeavour. The boat was up on the slips so you could see its shallow draft in all its glory.
I took a couple of photos I can post if anyone is interested. |
Owner of Charissa
Pictures at http://s154.photobucket.com/albums/s255/akkeir/Charissa/ |
Edited by - akeir on 14 June 2006 12:23:20 AM |
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Splinter
Helmsman
Australia
500 Posts |
Posted - 14 June 2006 : 5:42:13 PM
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Andrew, the photos of the shallow draft would be good. They just appear to be a cute boat but it would have to be slow under sail!
cheers, |
"Splinter" |
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akeir
Helmsman
Australia
269 Posts |
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akeir
Helmsman
Australia
269 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2007 : 10:50:51 PM
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Here is some more photos of Buttercup, one of those strange Vikings mored at Limeburners Cove in Geelong.
I have some photos, but I havent been able to load upload them....
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Owner of Charissa
Pictures at http://s154.photobucket.com/albums/s255/akkeir/Charissa/ |
Edited by - akeir on 26 May 2007 11:00:00 PM |
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Webmaster
Administrator
Australia
215 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2007 : 10:06:03 AM
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| If you email them to me - I'll put them in the gallery. |
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E23 VIKING - DIMENSIONS & STABILITY
